Вопрос КИ (и другим не-прасангикам) про атман

What are the formations not associated with mind52 (cittaviprayukta saṃskāra)?
These are:
1. acquisition (prāpti),
2. absorption without perception [or without discrimination] (asamjñi-samāpatti),
3. absorption of cessation (nirodhasamāpatti),
4. the state of non-perception (āsaṃjñika),
5. the life faculty (jīvitendriya),
6. similarity of type [similar class] (nikāyasabhāga),
7. birth (jāti),
8. ageing (jarā),
9. duration (sthiti),
10. impermanence (anityatā),
11. groups of names (nāmakāya),
12. groups of words (padakāya),
13. groups of letters (vyañjanakāya),53
14. the ordinary person’s state (pṛthagjanatva),
15. continuity (pravṛtti),
16. distinction (pratiniyama),
17. relatedness (yoga),
18. speed (java),
19. sequence (anukrama),
20. time (kāla),
21. location (deśa),
22. number (saṃkhyā),
23. assemblage (sāmagri).

1. What is acquisition (prāpti)? Obtaining, acquisition (pratilambha), possession (samanvāgama). It is a designation (prajñāpti) indicating increase (ācaya) and decrease (apacaya) of wholesome (kuśala) and unwholesome (akuśala) things.
2. What is absorption without perception (asaṃjñisamāpatti)? It is a designation indicating the cessation (nirodha) of mind and unstable mental activities (asthāvarāṇām cittacaitasikānām) by means of mental engagement (manasikāra); preceded by perception of liberation (niḥsaraṇasaṃjñā) in a person who is free of desire (vītarāga) in the ‘completely pure’ realm (subhakṛtsna) but who is not yet freed from desire of the realms above that state.
3. What is the absorption of cessation (nirodhasamāpatti)? It is a designation indicating the cessation of mind and unstable mental activities by means of mental engagement preceded by perception of a state of peace (śāntavihāra) in a person who is freed from desire in the ‘sphere of nothingness’ (ākiñcanyāyatāna) and who has just come out of the ‘peak of existence’ (bhavāgra).
4. What is the state of non-perception (āsaṃjñika)? It is a designation indicating the cessation of mind and unstable mental activities in a person born among the gods (deva) in the realm of beings without perception (asaṃjñisattva).
5. What is the life faculty (jīvitendriya)? The duration of life (āyu)54 indicates a period of determined length of time (sthitikālaniyama) allocated by previous actions (pūrvakarmāviddha) for a similar class of sentient beings (nikāyasabhāga).55
6. What is similarity of type [or similar class] (nikāyasabhāga)? It is a designation indicating the resemblance of the peculiar nature (ātmabhāvasadṛśatā) of different individuals amongst the various types of beings.
7. What is birth (jāti)? It is a designation indicating the appearing into existence of formations after their disappearance (saṃskarāṇaṃ abhūtvā bhāve) for a similar class of sentient beings (nikāyasabhāge).
8. What is ageing (jarā)? It is a designation indicating the change that takes place in the continuity (prabandhānyathātva) of formations similar in type.56
9. What is duration [or subsistence] (sthiti)? It is a designation indicating the non-breaking of the continuity (prabandhāvipraṇāśa) of formations for a similar class of sentient beings.
10. What is impermanence (anityatā)? It is a designation indicating the rupture of the continuity (prabandhaviṇāÔha) of formations for a similar class of sentient beings.57
54 Jīvitendriya and āyu are used here synonymously.
55 Cf. Dhs p. 143, verse 635: Katamaṃ taṃ rūpaṃ jīvitindriyaṃ?Yo tesaṃ rūpinaṃ dhammānaṃ āyu ṭhiti yapanā yāpanā trīyanā vattanā pālanā jīvitaṃ jīvitindriyaṃ, idaṃ taṃ jīvitindriyaṃ.
56 Cf. ibid., p. 144, verse 644: Katamaṃ taṃ rūpaṃ rūpassa jaratā? Yā rūpassa jarā jīraṇatā khaṇdiccaṃ pāliccaṃ valittacatā āyuno saṃhāni indriyānaṃ paripāko, idaṃ taṃ rūpaṃ rūpasso jaratā. 18
The Abhidharmasamuccaya by Asaṅga
11. What is groups of names (nāmakāya)? It is a designation indicating the identity of things (dharmāṇāṃ svabhāvādhivacana).
12. What is groups of words (padakāya)? It is a designation indicating the particularity of things (dharmāṇāṃ viśeṣādhivacana).
13. What is groups of letters (vyañjanakāya)? It is a designation indicating the syllables (akṣara) that consitute the basis of the two preceding classes because it makes them known (abhivyañjana). The letter (varṇa) is just that because it describes the meaning (arthasaṃvarṇana). It is also a designation for the syllable (akṣara) because of the indestructibility of their synonymity (paryāyākṣaraṇatā).
14. What is the state of an ordinary person (pṛthagjanatva)? It is a designation indicating the absence (aparatilābha) of noble qualities (aryādharma).
15. What is continuity (pravṛtti)? It is a designation indicating the non-interruption (anupaccheda) of the continuity of causes and effects (hetuphalaprabandha).
16. What is distinction (pratiniyama)? It is a designation indicating the difference (nānatva) of causes and effects.
17. What is relatedness (yoga)? It is a designation indicating the correspondence (anurūpya) of causes and effects.
18. What is speed (java)? It is a designation indicating the rapid succession (āśupravṛtti) of causes and effects.
19. What is sequence? (anukrama)? It is a designation indicating the orderly succession (ekatvapravṛtti) of causes and effects.
20. What is time (kāla)? It is a designation indicating the continuous succession of causes and effects (hetuphalaprabandhapravṛtti).
21. What is location (deśa)? It is a designation indicating causes and effects in the east alone, in the south alone, in the west alone, in the north alone, below, above or everywhere in the ten directions.
22. What is number (saṃkhyā)? It is a designation indicating distinctively the division (bheda) of the formations (saṃskāra).
23. What is assemblage (sāmagrī)? It is a designation indicating the combination of causes, effects and conditions (hetuphalapratyayasamavadhāna).

В йогачаре НС - асамскрита дхарма

Which are the elements of mental objects (dharmadhātu) that are not included in the aggregates? These are the unconditioned (asaṃskṛta), which are eight in number:
(1) the ‘suchness’ [essential nature] of wholesome things (kuśaladharmatathatā),
(2) the ‘suchness’ of unwholesome things (akuśaladharmatathatā),
(3) the ‘suchness’ of neutral things (avyākṛtadharmatathatā),
(4) space (ākāśa),
(5) cessation not due to discrimination61 [cessation not due to the wisdom-knowledges] (apratisaṃkhyānirodha),
(6) cessation due to discrimination62 [cessation due to the wisdom-knowledges] (pratisaṃkhyānirodha),
(7) the immovable, serenity63 (āniñjya),
(8) cessation of perception and feeling (saṃjñāvedayitanirodha).

1. What is the suchness of wholesome things (kuśaladharmatathatā)? It is the fact that there is no ‘self’ (nairātmyam); it is known as empty (śūnya), signless (animitta), the peak of existence, supreme reality (bhūtakoṭi), ultimate reality (paramārtha) and the Dharma element (dharmadhātu).
Why is suchness (tathatā) called thus? Because of the unchangeability of its nature (ananyathābhāvatā).
Why is suchness called selfless (nairātmya)? Because it does not have the two kinds of ‘self’.64
Why is suchness called empty (śūnya)? Because it is devoid of all the impurities.
Why is suchness called signless (animitta)? Because all signs have been obliterated.
Why is suchness called the peak of existence (bhūtakoṭi)? Because it is not an object of transformation.
Why is suchness called ultimate reality (paramārtha)? Because it is the object of ultimate superior knowledge.
Why is suchness called the Dharma element (dharmadhātu)? Because it is the fundamental mark of the Buddha’s teaching for all the disciples and pratyekabuddhas.
2. The suchness of unwholesome things and 3. the suchness of neutral things should be understood in the same way as the suchness of wholesome things.
4. What is space (ākāśa)? It is the absence of matter (rūpa) because it allows the manifestation of all activities.
5. What is cessation not due to the wisdom-knowledges (apratisaṃkhyānirodha)? It is cessation that is not disjunction, [not blocked]65 (na visaṃyoga).
6. What is cessation due to the wisdom-knowledges (pratisaṃkhyānirodha)? It is cessation that is disjunction, [blocked] (visaṃyoga).
7. What is the immoveable (āniñjya)? It is the cessation of pleasure and pain in the individual who is free of attachment in the ‘completely-pure’ realm (śubhakṛtsna) but who is not free of attachment of the realms above.
8. What is cessation of perception and sensation (saṃjñāvedayitanirodha)? It is the cessation of mind and unstable mental activities and also of certain mental activities that are stable as a result of attention [absorption] (manasikāra) preceded by a peaceful state (śāntavihāra) in an individual who is free of attachment (vītarāga) in the ‘sphere of nothingness’ (ākiñcanyāyatana) and who has come out of the ‘peak of existence’ (bhavāgra).

as a result of attention [absorption] (manasikāra)

КИ, в Елену не вникал, Вы прекрасно понимаете что нирвана в сарвастиваде "есть что-то",
а в махаяне - "нет ничего", одно название.
Если спроецировать на йгч, то сарвастивадинское "со свабхавай" оказывается в паратантре,
кроме нирваны, которая в сарвастиваде тоже "со свабхавой".

Абстракции могут быть только в савикалпаке, в мано-аятане

нирвана в сарвастиваде "есть что-то",
а в махаяне - "нет ничего", одно название

>>manasikāra
>>manasikāra
>>manasikāra

Стройте рассуждение на своем понимании термина

у достигшего нирваны без остатка нет мано-дхату, также нет манаса

na syānmano 'pi manodhāturapi / yathā nirūpādhiśeṣanirvāṇadhātusamāpannasya /

Асангой сказано, что виджняны в нирване б\о нет, т.е. поток сознания прерван,
но вы собрались убеждать в обратном.

Очень странно, что вы отстаиваете позицию про непознаваемую нирвану, о которой говорил Будда (авторитетное писание). Что является калькой с ньяи, но отправляете туда почему-то меня. Это какая-то стадия психического проецирования?