Обсуждение "Нингма в Украине"

Fly in the milk · Гость Откуда: Kiev

А действительно, почём исписывать то столько страниц изобилирующих желчью, злой иронией и обоюдными оскорблениями на этом и др. форумах? Полагаю, для жирной точки в этой долгой теме действительно следует узнать позицию компетентных лиц, как то Е. П. Минлинг Кхенчен Ринпоче и кхенпо Цеванг Гьяцо, на которых так часто в последнее время ссылается Дорже Жамбо и его ученики.

Для этого предлагаю отправить открытое письмо Е. П. Минлинг Кхенчену Ринпоче. За основу предлагаю взять следующий вариант:

[i]Dear Your Eminence Minling Khenchen Rinpoche

We have considered necessary to inform you that the Dorje Zhambo, the person who was invited Khenpo Tsewang Gyatso from Mindrolling monastery to Ukraine has mixed reputation.

Authenticity of the monastery headed by him, his lineage, monastic vows of gelongpa level, curriculum (education program) of his monastery, and also his competence in Dharma Teachings & Tibetan medicine raise the many doubts because of many contradictions and are a subject of hot discussions for a long time.

So, for example, earlier he was positioned himself as belonging to the line of the Nyingma, which was originated in Tibet in the fifth century and established by Guru named Sahasvara before the Shantarakshita and Guru Rinpoche were reached Tibet. Also, in his monastery he is single-handedly devote his students in the gelongpa monastic level. Also, he and his students allow themselves to openly criticize the activities of His Holiness the Dalai Lama as a political and spiritual leader of Tibet.

So now Dorje Zhambo and his students publicly declare that Your Eminence and Khenpo Tsewang Gyatso are already absolutely confirms his authenticity as gelongpa (who has the right to single-handedly devote his students in the gelongpa monastic level), confirms his activity as experienced lama and prior of the Sheychen Ling monastery, which belongs to the pure Nyingma tradition, also confirms his competence in Vinaya, and approved the curriculum of his monastery as one that completely corresponds to the pure Nyingma tradition of Tibetan Buddhism.

Also he declares his intention to visit Mindrolling for reacceptance of his gelongpa vows from Your Eminence, according to alleged special traditional ceremony, which seems very strange.

Then, also, his students declares that Khenpo Tsewang Gyatso was confirming the existence of “Mag Tzal”, which study in Sheychen Ling, as traditional Tibetan martial art, and that Khenpo Tsewang Gyatso personally heard about some of Tibetan monasteries in Nepal where it practice.

We are sincerely asking you to confirm or refute the veracity of the information above for the termination of all disputes about this questions and also because the well-being and safeness of many people who are interested in the Buddhism depends on it.

Sincerely yours.
[/i]

Предлагаю всем заинтересованным участникам внести предложения по коррекции и дополнениям к данному письму перед тем как его отправить.

Fly in the milk · Гость Откуда: Kiev

А действительно, почём исписывать то столько страниц изобилирующих желчью, злой иронией и обоюдными оскорблениями на этом и др. форумах? Полагаю, для жирной точки в этой долгой теме действительно следует узнать позицию компетентных лиц, как то Е. П. Минлинг Кхенчен Ринпоче и кхенпо Цеванг Гьяцо, на которых так часто в последнее время ссылается Дорже Жамбо и его ученики.

Для этого предлагаю отправить открытое письмо Е. П. Минлинг Кхенчену Ринпоче. За основу предлагаю взять следующий вариант:

Dear Your Eminence Minling Khenchen Rinpoche

We have considered necessary to inform you that the Dorje Zhambo, the person who was invited Khenpo Tsewang Gyatso from Mindrolling monastery to Ukraine has mixed reputation.

Authenticity of the monastery headed by him, his lineage, monastic vows of gelongpa level, curriculum (education program) of his monastery, and also his competence in Dharma Teachings & Tibetan medicine raise the many doubts because of many contradictions and are a subject of hot discussions for a long time.

So, for example, earlier he was positioned himself as belonging to the line of the Nyingma, which was originated in Tibet in the fifth century and established by Guru named Sahasvara before the Shantarakshita and Guru Rinpoche were reached Tibet. Also, in his monastery he is single-handedly devote his students in the gelongpa monastic level. Also, he and his students allow themselves to openly criticize the activities of His Holiness the Dalai Lama as a political and spiritual leader of Tibet.

So now Dorje Zhambo and his students publicly declare that Your Eminence and Khenpo Tsewang Gyatso are already absolutely confirms his authenticity as gelongpa (who has the right to single-handedly devote his students in the gelongpa monastic level), confirms his activity as experienced lama and prior of the Sheychen Ling monastery, which belongs to the pure Nyingma tradition, also confirms his competence in Vinaya, and approved the curriculum of his monastery as one that completely corresponds to the pure Nyingma tradition of Tibetan Buddhism.

Also he declares his intention to visit Mindrolling for reacceptance of his gelongpa vows from Your Eminence, according to alleged special traditional ceremony, which seems very strange.

Then, also, his students declares that Khenpo Tsewang Gyatso was confirming the existence of “Mag Tzal”, which study in Sheychen Ling, as traditional Tibetan martial art, and that Khenpo Tsewang Gyatso personally heard about some of Tibetan monasteries in Nepal where it practice.

We are sincerely asking you to confirm or refute the veracity of the information above for the termination of all disputes about this questions and also because the well-being and safeness of many people who are interested in the Buddhism depends on it.

Sincerely yours.

Предлагаю всем заинтересованным участникам внести предложения по коррекции и дополнениям к данному письму перед тем как его отправить.

Fritz · Зарегистрирован: 02.11.2006 Суждений: 4456

Ну чтож, я считаю что пора отправлять леттер. На бумаге будете это делать или электронно? Вообще прикольно было бы что бы кто-то из поезжающих в те края занёс лично и через пару дней заскочил бы за ответом.

Arrow · Зарегистрирован: 19.02.2010 Суждений: 68

Лучше на бумаге излагайте, и бумажный ответ требуйте, а то ведь электронный пасквиль и подделать можно)))) Опять же могут и не ответить на электронное письмо - мало ли писателей на просторах интернета. Ну, а ответ обязательно в студию подайте, самому интересно.

Samedy · барон Зарегистрирован: 23.05.2005 Суждений: 638

по моему вполне грамотно составлено, отправляйте. Если будете отправлять в бумажном виде (а собственно если и в электронном), можно собрать подписи представителей московских нингмапинских общин. Занести было-бы, конечно, прикольней - но вроде в Дера Дун никто пока не собирался (из знакомых), всеж таки обычно ездят осенью-зимой в те края. Так что - отправляйте в электронном. В конечном счете, может быть два варианта:
1. В ответе сказано - "у них все хорошо". Хулители раскаиваются, последователи торжествуют.
2. В ответе сказано - "ничего такого не знаем". Хулители торжествуют, последователи остаются при своем мнении.
Так что монастырю Шейчен Линг, в любом случае, ничего не угрожает. Twisted Evil

Wolfshadow

Ну да, закрывать свое кунгфу они точно не будут.

Fly in the milk · Гость Откуда: Kiev

Лучше на бумаге излагайте, и бумажный ответ требуйте, а то ведь электронный пасквиль и подделать можно

Fly in the milk · Гость Откуда: Kiev

Тем временем, как мне кажется, следует определиться с тем, от лица кого будет отправленно Кхенчену Ринпоче это открытое письмо. Так как подобная инициатива возникла в рамках данного интернет ресурса и представляет интерес для многих (судя по кол-ву участников в теме), то мне представляется логичным следующий вариант:

...
Sincerely yours, Participants of Buddhist online community "Dharma".

Жду мнений (в первую очередь модераторов и администраторов dharma.org.ru.).

Что касается сбора подписей заинтересованных представителей московских и др. ньингмапинских общин, предлагаю по возможности давать ссылку на это обсуждение, где они смогут оставить пожелание приобщить свой голос к открытому письму, текст которого, после некоторой редакции следующий:

Fly in the milk · Гость Откуда: Kiev

Dear Your Eminence Minling Khenchen Rinpoche

We have considered necessary to inform you about next information. Dorje Zhambo, the person who was invited Khenpo Tsewang Gyatso from Mindrolling monastery to Ukraine has mixed reputation. Authenticity of the monastery headed by him, his lineage, monastic vows of gelongpa level, curriculum (education program) of his monastery, and also his competence in Dharma Teachings and Tibetan medicine is a subject of hot discussions for a long time and raise the many doubts because of many contradictions and omissions from his hand.

So, for example, from the Dorje Zhambo's brief biography which represented on official web page of his organization follows that he has accepted gelongpa monastic vows from the Choychen Dorje Chabchenba Lama (whose existence was not possible to prove up till nowadays, despite several formal requests) in 1989, thus, he has met him only for two years before 1989 in Buratiya, and then, in 1991 he was returned to Ukraine where he has registered the Buddhist organization, and in 1993 he creates the monastery. It is necessary to notice that is absolutely not clear how it was possible to accept gelongpa monastic vows and to create a monastery without sangha which arises only in availability of four experienced gelongpas according to Vinaya and necessary permission, and also, it is absolutely not clear in what language he received the teachings from the Choychen Dorje Chabchenba Lama. Also, It is necessary to notice that now Dorje Zhambo continue single-handedly devotes his students in the gelongpa monastic level in his Sheychen Ling monastery. Now, according to the words of his students, Dorje Zhambo declares his strong intention to visit Mindrolling for re-acceptance of gelongpa vows from Your Eminence, according to alleged special traditional ceremony, which seems strange enough.

As interesting fact that earlier Dorje Zhambo has positioned himself as belonging to the line of the Nyingma, which was originated in Tibet in the fifth century and established by Guru named Sahasvara before the Shantarakshita and Guru Rinpoche were reached Tibet. Later this information has been canceled. Also it is necessary to mention that in spite of the fact that in 1991 Dorje Zhambo has received in Buratiya one of the tantric teaching from His Holiness the Dalai Lama, he and his students allow themselves to openly criticize the activities of His Holiness as a political and spiritual leader of Tibet.

In Separate item it is necessary to note some suspicious practice named "Mag Tzal", which positioned by Dorje Zhambo as traditional Tibetan martial art, and that he teach in the walls of Sheychen Ling monastery. Would like to note that despite the many questions asking of the high Tibetan lamas about “Mag Tzal”, none of them are not only didn’t confirmed the existence of the last, but even did not hear about something like that. Besides the spiritual activity Dorje Zhambo also participates in one of the Ukrainian nationalist organizations and conducts some lectures-psycho trainings as a layman.

Also, in Sheychen Ling produced some medicaments with Tibetan names, which also positioned by Dorje Zhambo as traditional Tibetan.

Dear Rinpoche-la, as you understand, the given information seems so strange even for the people who have only superficial knowledge about Tibetan Buddhism, but Dorje Zhambo does not hurry to clear up a number of existing disputable situations, explaining it the way that no one from the opponents who is not a monk, who has no experience of three years retreats, and who has no knowledge of the canonical languages are not serious practitioners of Buddhism and therefore not worthy of any clear explanation for this issues.

Nevertheless, recently Dorje Zhambo and his students openly point to Your Eminence, as the head guarantor of their authenticity. They publicly declare that Your Eminence and Khenpo Tsewang Gyatso are already absolutely confirms the authenticity of Dorje Zhambo as gelongpa (who has the right to single-handedly devote the students in the gelongpa monastic level) and as experienced lama and prior of the Sheychen Ling monastery which belongs to the pure Nyingma tradition, confirms Dorje Zhambo's competence in Vinaya, and approved the curriculum (education program) of the Sheychen Ling monastery as one that completely corresponds to the pure Nyingma tradition of Tibetan Buddhism. Also they declares that Khenpo Tsewang Gyatso was confirming the existence of “Mag Tzal” as traditional Tibetan martial art, and that Khenpo Tsewang Gyatso personally heard about some of Tibetan monasteries in Nepal where it practice.

We are sincerely asking you to confirm or refute the veracity of the information above for the termination of all existing disputes about this issues, because for a long time it directly conjugated with a number of negative manifestations of speech and mind of many people against each other, and also because the well-being and safeness of many people who are interested in the Buddhism depends on it.

Fritz · Зарегистрирован: 02.11.2006 Суждений: 4456

Можно и комьюнити Дхарма. Можно посвязываться с общинами, ньинмапинскими и поспрашивать их одобрения.
Также можно отправить бумажный вариант заказным письмом, типа курьерской службой, вроде DHL. Тогда точно обратят внимание и ничто не потеряется.

Krie

Предложение позиции выработанного отношения к
\\Dorje Zhambo, the person who was invited Khenpo Tsewang Gyatso from Mindrolling monastery to Ukraine\\
забыто между прочим, учителю вынесена на рассмотрение недостающая часть просьбы по вопросам методов самоопределения кто есть кто.
Попкорн

шрамана

[img]Так что - отправляйте в электронном. В конечном счете, может быть два варианта:[/img]
а если третий вариант: знаем, но это лохи. Very Happy

Samedy · барон Зарегистрирован: 23.05.2005 Суждений: 638

а если третий вариант: знаем, но это лохи. Very Happy

Fritz · Зарегистрирован: 02.11.2006 Суждений: 4456

А кто такой Трактунг Р.?

Samedy · барон Зарегистрирован: 23.05.2005 Суждений: 638

Есть такой персонаж - бывший рестлер, коего как-то по хитрому распознали ажно как реинкарнацию До Кенце Дордже, не больше не меньше. Ламу, который его распознал разжаловали за плохое поведение. А Трактунг как-то вот остался. правда тоже есть заявление администрации ЕСДЛ, что это непонятно кто. Тем не менее учит, открывает терма и вообще зажигает огни. Погугли, массу смешного увидишь.

http://kapala.narod.ru/traktung8.jpg