Почему не Тхеравада

ae · Зарегистрирован: 08.11.2017 Суждений: 1140

Не похоже на нашу Нандамату.
Но это она. Удивительно и поразительно!
Или что? Одна анагами, другая на небесах тридцати трёх? Чот я запутался.

Горсть листьев

Не похоже на нашу Нандамату.
Но это она. Удивительно и поразительно!
Или что? Одна анагами, другая на небесах тридцати трёх? Чот я запутался.

Ящерок · Зарегистрирован: 17.09.2013 Суждений: 1542

Не похоже на нашу Нандамату.
Но это она. Удивительно и поразительно!
Или что? Одна анагами, другая на небесах тридцати трёх? Чот я запутался.

Ящерок · Зарегистрирован: 17.09.2013 Суждений: 1542

И по комментарию она - анагамин.

Горсть листьев

А вообще-то, Обо очень иентересно интерпретирует суттанту, хороший рассказчик, советую ознакомиться, если нет страха за свою православность.

ae · Зарегистрирован: 08.11.2017 Суждений: 1140

И по комментарию она - анагамин.

Ящерок · Зарегистрирован: 17.09.2013 Суждений: 1542

Ящерок пишет:

И по комментарию она - анагамин.

Разве анагами перерождаются в Таватимсе?

ae · Зарегистрирован: 08.11.2017 Суждений: 1140

ae пишет:

Не похоже на нашу Нандамату.
Но это она. Удивительно и поразительно!
Или что? Одна анагами, другая на небесах тридцати трёх? Чот я запутался.

Как говорил старец-старовер Гаврила городскому дохтору, "тута, милай, думать не надо, тута верить токмо надо... А от думания сомнения всякие возникают, а от сомнений вольнодумие...так и до греха фарисейского недалече"

ae · Зарегистрирован: 08.11.2017 Суждений: 1140

ae пишет:

Ящерок пишет:

И по комментарию она - анагамин.

Разве анагами перерождаются в Таватимсе?

С чего Вы решили, что это она? Разве этот комментарий на эту сутту?

Ящерок · Зарегистрирован: 17.09.2013 Суждений: 1542

Вот статья из Словаря палийских собственных имен про Нандамату из обсуждаемой сутты:

Velukantakí, Velukandakí, Velukantakiyá

A lady of Velukanta (Velukanda). She is mentioned as an exemplary lay woman (A.i.88; ii.164). She founded, for the Order headed by Sáriputta and Moggallána an offering which the Buddha praised, because it was endowed with the six requisite qualities. See Dána Sutta (1).

Once she rose before dawn and sang the Paráyana. Vessavana happened to be passing over her house on his way from north to south (to see the Buddha, says SNA.i.369), and hearing the song, stopped at her window to praise it and to reveal his identity. She greeted him cordially, and in return for her greeting he announced to her that Sáriputta and Moggallána were on their way to Velukanta. She, delighted with the news, made all preparations and sent word to the monastery, inviting the monks to the house. After the meal, she informed the Elders that Vessavana had told her of their arrival. When they expressed their amazement, she told them of several other virtues possessed by her. Her only son Nanda was seized by the king's men and killed before her eyes, but she experienced no disquiet, nor did she when her husband, after his death, having been born as a Yakkha (Bhummadevatá says the Commentary), revealed himself to her. She was guilty of no transgression of the precepts, could enter into the four jhánas at will, and had cast off the five lower fetters. The monks expressed their great admiration and Sáriputta preached to her (A.iv.63ff).

Buddhaghosa says (AA.ii.718; cf. SNA.i.370) that she was an anágámí, and that, when she promised to share with Vessavana the merits she would gain by entertaining the monks, headed by the two Chief Disciples, Vessavana, to show his gratitude, filled her stores with rice, and these stores remained always full throughout her life. They thus became proverbial.

The Sutta Nipáta Commentary (SNA.i.370) states that she kept a daily fast and knew the Pitakas by heart. It also says that, at the end of her recital of the Paráyana, Vessavana offered her a boon, and she asked that, as her servants were weary of carrying the harvest home from the fields, Vessavana should allow his Yakkhas to do the work for them. To this he agreed, and his followers filled for her one thousand two hundred and fifty store houses. Vessavana then went to the Buddha and told him of what had happened.

The Dhammapada Commentary (DhA.i.340) mentions Velukantakí Nandamátá and Khujjattará as the chief lay women disciples of the Buddha. But in the Anguttara list' of eminent lay women, while Velukantakí Nandamátá's name does not occur, Khujjatará is mentioned. Mention is made of a Nandamátá, eminent in meditation, but she is called Uttará.

A.i.26; cf. S.ii.236, where the same two are mentioned; Mrs. Rhys Davids thinks that Velukantakí Nandamátá is probably identical with Uttará Nandamátá (Brethren 4, n.1). This identification does not seem to be correct. See Uttará Nandamátá; see also Nanda-Kumáputta.

ae · Зарегистрирован: 08.11.2017 Суждений: 1140

и вторая
4. Uttarā Nandamātā.-Chief of the lay-women disciples who waited on the Buddha (Bu.xxvi.20). In the Anguttara Nikāya (i.26), she is described as the best of women disciples in meditative power (jhāyīnam), but this may refer to another Uttarā. She is again mentioned (A.iv.347; AA.ii.791) in a list of eminent lay-women disciples, who observed the fast (uposatha) of the eight precepts.

According to the Anguttara Commentary (i.240ff), she was the daughter of Punnasīha (Punnaka), a servitor of Sumana-setthi of Rājagaha. Later, when Punnasīha was made dhana-setthi because of the immense wealth he gained by virtue of a meal given to Sāriputta, he held an almsgiving for the Buddha and his monks for seven days. On the seventh day, at the end of the Buddha's sermon of thanksgiving, Punnasīha, his wife and daughter, all became Sotāpanna.

When Sumana-setthi asked for Uttarā's hand for his son, his request was refused because Sumana's family did not belong to the Buddha's faith. Punna sent word to Sumana that Uttarā was the Buddha's disciple and daily offered flowers to the Buddha, costing a kahāpana. Later, however, when Sumana promised that Uttarā should be given flowers worth two kahāpanas, Punna agreed and Uttarā was married. After several unsuccessful attempts to obtain her husband's permission to keep the fast, as she had done in her parents' house, she got from her father fifteen thousand kahāpanas and with these she purchased the services of a prostitute named Sirimā, to look after her husband for a fortnight, and with his consent she entered on a fortnight's uposatha. On the last day of the fast, while Uttarā was busy preparing alms for the Buddha, her husband, walking along with Sirimā, saw her working hard and smiled, thinking what a fool she was not to enjoy her wealth. Uttarā, seeing him, smiled at the thought of his folly in not making proper use of his wealth. Sirimā, thinking that husband and wife were smiling at each other, regardless of her presence, flew into a fury and, seizing a pot of boiling oil, threw it at Uttarā's head. But Uttarā was at that time full of compassion for Sirimā, and the oil, therefore, did not hurt her at all. Sirimā, realizing her grievous folly, begged forgiveness of Uttarā, who took her to the Buddha and related the whole story, asking that he should forgive her. The Buddha preached to Sirimā and she became a Sotāpanna.

The Vimānavatthu Commentary (pp.631ff; Vv.11f) and the Dhammapada Commentary (iii.302ff; see also iii.104) give the above story with several variations in detail. According to these versions, at the end of the Buddha's sermon to Sirimā, Uttarā became a Sakadāgāmī and her husband and father-in-law Sotāpannas.

After death Uttarā was born in Tāvatimsa in a Vimāna. Moggallāna saw her in one of his visits to Tāvatimsa and, having learnt her story, repeated it to the Buddha.

It is curious that Nanda is not mentioned in either account. It has been suggested (E.g., Brethren 41, n.1) that Uttarā Nandamātā may be identical with Velukantakī-Nanda-mātā, but I do not think that the identification is justified. Uttarā's story is given in the Visuddhi-Magga (p.313) to prove that fire cannot burn the body of a person who lives in love, and again (p.380-1; also Ps.ii.212; PsA.497), as an instance of psychic power being diffused by concentration.

ae · Зарегистрирован: 08.11.2017 Суждений: 1140

Ну разобрались же, почтенный Ящерок. Две Нандаматы, ни одного Нанды, первая из сутты, которую приводит Яреб, вторая - про которую рассказывает почтенный Горсть Листьев. И обе крутышки. Светочи дхармы исписали полрунета мнением, что они одно лицо, вот это и путает.

Ящерок · Зарегистрирован: 17.09.2013 Суждений: 1542

и вторая
4. Uttarā Nandamātā.

Горсть листьев

Итак, рассказ про матушку приводится в апокрифическом тексте для убеждения слушателей в великой и буквально магической силе метта-бхаваны и трасовых состояний.
Вот это да! Невероятное дело...

Ящерок · Зарегистрирован: 17.09.2013 Суждений: 1542

Две Нандаматы, ни одного Нанды