№22898Добавлено: Чт 12 Окт 06, 14:42 (18 лет тому назад)
Lankavatara, 2-LXVI:
Further, Mahamati, I will tell you about the features of Jnana (absolute knowledge) and Vijnana (relative knowledge); and when you and other Bodhisattva-Mahasattvas are well conversant with these distinctive features of Jnana and Vijnana, you will quickly realise supreme enlightenment. There are three kinds of Jnana—worldly, super-worldly, and transcendental. Now, worldly knowledge belongs to the philosophers and to the ignorant and simple-minded who are attached to the dualistic views of being and non-being. Super-worldly knowledge belongs to all the Sravakas and Pratyekabuddhas who are attached to the notions of individuality and generality. Transcendental knowledge which is free from the dualism of being and non-being, belongs to the Bodhisattvas and takes its rise when they thoroughly examine things of imagelessness, see into the state of no-birth and no-annihilation, and realise egolessness at the stage of Tathagatahood.
Vijnana is subject to birth and destruction, and Jnana is not subject to birth and destruction. Further, Mahamati, Vijnana falls into [the dualism of] form and no-form, being and non-being, and is characterised with multiplicity; but Jnana is marked with the transcendence of [the dualism of] form and no-form. Further, Mahamati, Vijnana is characterised with accumulation and Jnana with non-accumulation. Jnana is of three kinds: that which assertains individuality and generality, that which assertains birth and decay, and that which assertains no-birth and no-decay.
Further, Mahamati, Jnana is devoid of attachment; Vijnana attaches itself to the multitudinousness of objects. Again, Vijnana is produced from the concordance of the triple combination; Jnana, in its self-nature, has nothing to do with combination or concordance. Again, Mahamati, Jnana is characterised with unattainability; it is the inner state of self-realisation by noble wisdom, and as it neither enters nor goes out, it is like the moon in water. So it is said:
38. Karma is accumulated by Citta, and discriminated by Jnana; and one acquires by Prajna the state of imagelessness and the powers.
39. Citta is bound up with an objective world, Jnana evolves with reflection; and Prajna evolves in the exalted state of imagelessness and in the excellent conditions.
40. Citta, Manas, and Vijnana are devoid of thoughts and discriminations; it is the Sravakas and not the Bodhisattvas that try to reach reality by means of discrimination.
41. The Tathagata's Jnana is pure, [resting] in quietude in the most excellent patience [or recognition of truth]; it is productive of excellent sense and is devoid of purposive-ness (samudacara-varijitam).
42. Prajna, with me, is of three kinds; whereby the wise grow powerful, individual signs are discriminated, and all things are manifested.
43. My Prajna has nothing to do with the two vehicles, it excludes the world of beings; that of the Sravakas evolves from their attachment to the world of beings; the Tathagata's Prajna is spotless because of its being in accord with Mind-only.
№22903Добавлено: Чт 12 Окт 06, 15:21 (18 лет тому назад)
test пишет:
Парамита это не упражнение. Вот тебе
Я ж говорил только про твою цитатц, а не про собственно ПП, и уже тем более не о том, как я сам считаю
test цитирует чей-то перевод пишет:
не говоря ни о чем презрительно, они, можно сказать, выполнили праджнапарамиту, известную также как упражнение в мудрости.
Угу, ты прав, в ранней йогачаре (ЛС, до Асанги) имелось, как минимум номинальное, деление на эти два вида. В поздней точно не делили. А вот относительно классической (от Асанги), вопрос пока открыт. _________________ Буддизм чистой воды
№22905Добавлено: Чт 12 Окт 06, 15:25 (18 лет тому назад)
Я сейчас думаю, что отсутствие деления на виджняну и джняну (употребляются как синонимы), это все-таки стиль поздней йогачары. Это видимо следствие более радикальной редукции и отказа от остатков метафизики. _________________ Буддизм чистой воды
№22908Добавлено: Чт 12 Окт 06, 16:26 (18 лет тому назад)
КИ пишет:
test пишет:
Парамита это не упражнение. Вот тебе
Я ж говорил только про твою цитатц, а не про собственно ПП, и уже тем более не о том, как я сам считаю
test цитирует чей-то перевод пишет:
не говоря ни о чем презрительно, они, можно сказать, выполнили праджнапарамиту, известную также как упражнение в мудрости.
Угу, ты прав, в ранней йогачаре (ЛС, до Асанги) имелось, как минимум номинальное, деление на эти два вида. В поздней точно не делили. А вот относительно классической (от Асанги), вопрос пока открыт.
Кря! Я говорю про смысл сутры, ты мне про то как переводчик перевёл слово парамита..
№23011Добавлено: Сб 14 Окт 06, 01:29 (18 лет тому назад)
Из этой сутры ташел только такой маленький кусочек у Конзе:
Цитата:
201. Buddha's Doctrine
"World-honoured One," said Brahma to Buddha, "if in the Tathagata's doctrine there is nothing that can be apprehended, what profit can be got from it, that men should speak of him as having achieved Enlightenment (Bodhi), and should call him Buddha? "
"Brahma," said Buddha, "what is your opinion? Is the doctrine that I preach, whether concerning the sphere of action or of non-action, real or a fiction?"
"It is a fiction," said Brahma. "It is not the Truth."
"What is your opinion?" said Buddha. " Is a doctrine that is a fiction something that exists or something that does not exist? "
"If a doctrine is only a fiction," said Brahma, "one cannot say that it exists or that it does not exist."
"Now in your opinion," said Buddha, "can a doctrine that neither exists nor does not exist, possibly be apprehended?"
"No, it cannot," said Brahma.
"Brahma," replied Buddha, "what the Tathagata did apprehend when he was sitting in the Place of Enlightenment was that all the passions to which vain misconception and error give rise are utterly void. His apprehension was that there was nothing to be apprehended; his knowledge was that there was nothing to be known. And how is this? The doctrine I apprehended cannot be seen, heard, felt or known. It cannot be taken or touched, it cannot be preached or controverted. It transcends all concrete categories. It cannot be put into words or into writing. . . . Brahma, from a doctrine that is void as space itself how can you suppose that any profit can be derived?"
"No, World-honoured One," said Brahma. . . .
"But this teaching is one that all the world finds hard to accept. And why? The world longs to get at Truth; but this teaching is neither false nor true. The world longs for a doctrine; but this teaching gives neither doctrine nor absence of doctrine. The world longs for Nirvana; but in this teaching there is neither Birth-and-Death nor Nirvana. The world longs for a good doctrine; but here there is no good or not-good. The world longs for pleasure; but here there is neither pain nor pleasure. The world longs for the advent of a Buddha; but here no Buddha either appears or passes into Extinction. . . . To believe that within the Passions is to be found Enlightenment and that within Enlightenment are to be found the Passions is as hard as to think that fire can come out of water or water out of fire. Yet the Tathagata, by apprehending that this was the true nature of Delusion and Passion, at the same time apprehended the whole of his Doctrine."
Visesha-cinta Brahma-pariprccha. Takakusu
XV, 59 and 82.
Цитата:
200. All Words are True
"Manjusri," said the god Brahma, "is what you have been telling me the Absolute Truth? " "All words are true," said Manjusri. "Are lies then also true?" asked Brahma. "They are," said Manjusri. "And why? Good sir, all words are empty, vain and belong to no point in space. To be empty and vain and to belong to no point in space is the characteristic of Absolute Truth. So in that sense all words are true. Between the words of Devadatta and the words of the Tathagata there is no difference or distinction at all. How is this? All possible words are words of the Tathagata; there is no getting outside him or outside what is So. Whatever can be said in words is able to say something only by dint of saying nothing at all."
Visesha-cinta Brahma-pariprccha. Takakusu
XV, 50 and 82.
№23723Добавлено: Ср 25 Окт 06, 22:14 (18 лет тому назад)
Ну вот из Ланкаватары на тему практики парамит, есть три вида практики парамит - мирская приводящая к хорошему переождению, надмирская - шраваков стремящихся в нирвану, и высшая надмирская бодхисаттв:
Цитата:
Further, Mahamati said: It is again said by the Blessed One that by fulfilling the six Paramitas Buddhahood is realised. What are the six (237) Paramitas? And how are they fulfilled?
The Blessed One replied: Mahamati, there are three kinds of Paramitas. What are the three? They are the worldly, the super-worldly, and the highest super-wordly. Of these, Mahamati, the worldly Paramitas [are practised thus]: Adhering tenaciously to the notion of an ego-soul and what belongs to it and holding fast to dualism, those who are desirous for this world of form, etc., will practise the Paramita of charity in order to obtain the various realms of existence. In the same way, Mahamati, the ignorant will practise the Paramitas of morality, patience, energy, Dhyana, and Prajna. Attaining the psychic powers they will be born in Brahma's heaven.
As to the super-worldly Paramitas, they are practised by the Sravakas and Pratyekabuddhas whose thoughts are possessed by the notion of Nirvana; the Paramitas of charity, etc. are thus performed by them, who, like the ignorant, are desirous of enjoying Nirvana for themselves.
Again, Mahamati, as to the highest super-worldly Paramitas, [they are practised] by the Bodhisattva-Mahasattvas who are the practisers of the highest form of spiritual discipline; that is,
1) perceiving that there is nothing in the world but what is only seen of the Mind itself, on account of discrimination, and understanding that duality is of the Mind itself, they see that discrimination ceases to function; and, that seizing and holding is non-existent; and, free from all thoughts of attachment to individual objects which are of the Mind itself, and in order to benefit and give happiness to all sentient beings, [the Bodhisattvas] practise the Paramita of charity.
2) While dealing with an objective world there is no rising in them of discrimination; they just practise morality and this is the Paramita [of morality].
3) To practise patience with no thought of discrimination rising in them (238) and yet with full knowledge of grasped and grasping —this is the Paramita of patience.
4) To exert oneself with energy from the first part of the night to its end and in conformity with the disciplinary measures and not to give rise to discrimination—this is the Paramita of energy.
5) Not to cherish discrimination, not to fall into the philosopher's notion of Nirvana—this is the Paramita of Dhyana.
6) As to the Paramita of Prajna: when the discrimination of the Mind itself ceases, when things are thoroughly examined by means of intelligence, there is no falling into dualism, and a revulsion takes place at the basis, while previous karma is not destroyed; when [transcendental knowledge] is exercised for the accomplishment of self-realisation, then there is the Paramita of Prajna. These, Mahamati, are the Paramitas and their meanings.
№23736Добавлено: Чт 26 Окт 06, 11:47 (18 лет тому назад)
LAS:
As to the Paramita of Prajna: when the discrimination of the Mind itself ceases, when things are thoroughly examined by means of intelligence, there is no falling into dualism, and a revulsion takes place at the basis, while previous karma is not destroyed; when [transcendental knowledge] is exercised for the accomplishment of self-realisation, then there is the Paramita of Prajna.
Всякое прекращенеи есть асамскрита дхарма ниродха. Поэтому праджня (праджняпарамиты) не самскара. А скорее "асамскара".
№23744Добавлено: Чт 26 Окт 06, 15:17 (18 лет тому назад)
Праджня не пракращение, а только инструмент. Распознавание может и не сопровождаться ниродхой. К тому же, пока не занирохен сам инструмент прекращения, нирваны нет - праджня должна быть также прекращена, уже после того, как выполнила свою функцию (речь тут может идти и о временном прекращении в конкретной медитативной сессии) _________________ Буддизм чистой воды
№23791Добавлено: Пт 27 Окт 06, 13:05 (18 лет тому назад)
КИ пишет:
Я все прочие виды понял как воспевание и превознесение пользы "обычной".
мне думается коцептуальное воприятие принципиально противоречиво поскольку являсь лиш отражением объекта
не содержит его во всей полноте Поскольку часть объекта не может существавать в реальности любое коцептуальное воззрение на объект заведомо указывает на нечто нереальное _________________ прошу направить меня на курсы повышения зарплаты !
№23814Добавлено: Пт 27 Окт 06, 23:39 (18 лет тому назад)
КИ пишет:
Я все прочие виды понял как воспевание и превознесение пользы "обычной".
Читай по буквам:
Цитата:
1) perceiving that there is nothing in the world but what is only seen of the Mind itself, on account of discrimination, and understanding that duality is of the Mind itself, they see that discrimination ceases to function; and, that seizing and holding is non-existent; and, free from all thoughts of attachment to individual objects which are of the Mind itself, and in order to benefit and give happiness to all sentient beings, [the Bodhisattvas] practise the Paramita of charity.
2) While dealing with an objective world there is no rising in them of discrimination; they just practise morality and this is the Paramita [of morality].
3) To practise patience with no thought of discrimination rising in them and yet with full knowledge of grasped and grasping —this is the Paramita of patience.
4) To exert oneself with energy from the first part of the night to its end and in conformity with the disciplinary measures and not to give rise to discrimination—this is the Paramita of energy.
5) Not to cherish discrimination, not to fall into the philosopher's notion of Nirvana—this is the Paramita of Dhyana.
6) As to the Paramita of Prajna: when the discrimination of the Mind itself ceases, when things are thoroughly examined by means of intelligence, there is no falling into dualism, and a revulsion takes place at the basis, while previous karma is not destroyed; when [transcendental knowledge] is exercised for the accomplishment of self-realisation, then there is the Paramita of Prajna.
Абсолютно каждая парамита таким образом заключается в одном и том-же отсутствии ошибочного различения, все парамиты одинаковые и заключаются в том что нет различения, прекращается различение, не возникает различения, нет ни мысли различения, свобода от различения, не потакание различению, и нечего различать. Где тут "обычная" праджня? Это скорее одна из ниродх.
№23816Добавлено: Пт 27 Окт 06, 23:47 (18 лет тому назад)
Это мы уже разбирали - здесь парамиты просто подменяются преодолением клеш. Может такое наставление для тех, кто не понимает ничего в парамитах, чтобы у них комплексов не возникло, делалось. _________________ Буддизм чистой воды
Вам нельзя начинать темы Вам нельзя отвечать на сообщения Вам нельзя редактировать свои сообщения Вам нельзя удалять свои сообщения Вам нельзя голосовать в опросах Вы не можете вкладывать файлы Вы можете скачивать файлы