три вида tanha

Чушь, ну это так - к слову.

С какой стати гнев производная вибхава-тришна? Гнев производная кама-тришна, конечно.

гм. на сколько я слышал и читал, есть жажда к бытию, жажда к становлению и жажда к небытию, которые часто ассоциируются с неведением, страстью и гневом соответственно. >>

Главное никакого иного бытия человек и не думает. Он хочет прекращения этого.

3) Авторская (Ñanasuci Bhikkhu): жажда усиления интенсивности ощущений, это кама-танха; жажда того что уже есть (представленно), это бхава-танха; жажда того, что не представленно, но возможно, это вибхава-танха.

Интенциональность-с...

От такого я крокодильими заливаюсь.

We read in the above-quoted sutta about craving which is the second noble Truth. Craving for all the objects we experience arises time and again because it has been accumulated. We are not only attached to visible object, sound and the other sense-objects we experience, but also to seeing, hearing and the experiences through the other doors. We read in the sutta about a threefold craving: craving for sensual delight (kama-tanha), for becoming (bhava-tanha) and for non-becoming (vibhava-tanha) . Even when someone is not attached to sense-pleasures he may be attached to jhana or absorption concentration and rebirth in higher planes of existence which is the result of jhana. Then there is craving for becoming. This kind of craving may be without wrong view or with wrong view. When it is accompanied by wrong view it is clinging to eternity-belief, the belief in the existence of a persisting personality. The craving for non-becoming is always accompanied by wrong view, it is clinging to annihilation, the belief that there is annihilation at death.

For six sense-objects there are six kinds of craving. These six cravings may mean merely the love of sensual pleasure (kamma tanha). This love may be combined with the illusion of permanence (bhava tanha), tanha that implies the eternity-belief. Craving is also bound up with the belief in annihilation which makes some people overly attached to sensual pleasure (vibhava tanha). So there are six cravings (corresponding to six sense-objects) for each of the three tanhas has (kamatanha, bhavatanha and vibhavatanha) or 18 cravings. Each of these cravings may have internal objects or external objects and this leads to 36 kinds of craving. Since each craving may relate to the present, past or future, there are thus a total of 108 kinds of tanha. But all kinds of craving boil down to three kinds of tanha vis., kama-, bhava and vibhava-tanhas.

If feeling (vedana) that arises from contact with sense-objects is not rightly contemplated, it leads to one of the three kinds of craving viz., craving for sensual pleasure, craving for existence and craving for non-existence.

The first kind of craving (kammatanha) is focussed on sensual objects and it is most prevalent among the living beings of the sensual world.

The craving for existence (bhavatanha) is bound up with the eternity-belief (sassata-ditthi). It presupposes the permanence of a living being, and the indestructibility of the ego despite the dissolution of the physical body. The belief is not deep-rooted among the Buddhists. But non-Buddhists hold it so firmly that it is a major impediment to their spiritual liberation. Their craving for existence is evident in their illusion of permanent self and their love of sensual pleasure.

The craving for non-existence (vibhava-tanha) is born of the annihilation belief (uccheda-ditthi). The belief is not found among Buddhists and no one is a true Buddhist if he or she holds the belief. The craving for non-existence means the desire for the automatic cessation of the life-stream after death as well as the love of pleasure rooted in the materialistic view of life.

Each of these three cravings stems from the failure to realize anicca, dukkha and anatta through the introspection of feelings. So in order to forestall craving and its consequences, namely, rebirth and suffering, the yogi should contemplate every phenomenon and try to See everything as it really is.

7 => 8. Feeling as a determinant for craving: With the experience of pleasant sensations there follows liking and attachment. This is sense craving (kamatanha). Sometimes desire is for a position from which it will be possible to control and indulge in those pleasant feelings. This is craving for being or for states of being (bhavatanha). Experiences which produce feelings of discomfort or suffering usually cause thoughts of aversion and the desire to be rid of the source of those feelings. This is craving for non-being (vibhavatanha). Within neutral feelings, such as indifference or dullness, there is a subtle attachment, so that indifference is regarded as a subtle form of pleasant feeling, liable to evolve into desire for more overt forms of pleasure at any time.

7 => 8. Feeling ... craving: When pleasant feeling is experienced, desire usually follows. With unpleasant feeling, the reaction is one of stress, a desire to have the unpleasant object removed or annihilated. There is also a desire to seek distraction in pleasant feeling. Neutral feelings, or indifference, induce a condition of dullness or complacency. Both are subtle and deluding forms of pleasant feeling which the mind tends to attach to. They can also act as catalysts for the generation of desire for further pleasant feeling.

   Craving can be divided into three distinct kinds, thus:

       1. Kamatanha -- Craving for desirable sense objects.

       2. Bhavatanha -- 'Craving for being,' craving for particular life situations; on a deeper level, this includes the life instinct and the desire to maintain a particular condition or identity.

       3. Vibhavatanha -- 'Craving for non-being,' the craving to escape from or be free of disliked objects or situations; this kind of craving usually expresses itself in feelings such as despair, depression, self-hatred and self-pity.[15]

   Craving thus appears in three main forms: as craving for sense objects, craving for life situations, and craving to be free of unpleasant situations. This last form of craving is particularly noticeable when desires are thwarted or opposed, and expresses itself in resentment, anger and aggression.
-- http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/9280/coarise6.htm

The craving for non-existence (vibhava-tanha) is born of the annihilation belief (uccheda-ditthi). The belief is not found among Buddhists and no one is a true Buddhist if he or she holds the belief. The craving for non-existence means the desire for the automatic cessation of the life-stream after death as well as the love of pleasure rooted in the materialistic view of life.

Это довольно произвольный комментарий для Нины, потому что понятая в этом ключе вибхава-тришна совпадает с желанием просветлиться и освободиться. В чем погрешность подобного желания для буддиста?! Прекращение страдания это и есть прекращение индивидуального потока существования. Здесь нет разницы между вибхавой и ниродхой.

жажда того, что не представленно, но возможно, это вибхава-танха.

На деле, это жажда к иному бытию, лучшему (кажущемуся лучшим для конкретного индивида), чем сейчас.

"Зла не хватает" с тобой иногда разговаривать .

По смыслу, я говорил о том же самом:

"Иное бытие, чем сейчас" и "не представлено" - смысл один и тот же. Хоть и формулировался совершенно разными людьми.

"Samudaya, the Production of Dukkha, means thought which arises, grows and develops in endless varieties, or imagination of various kinds, which are derived from the three kinds of craving (tanha) - these being the cravings, for sensation (kama-tanha), to remain the same (bhava tanha), and to change and become something else (vibhava tanha).

Ты говорил о бытии (в смысле жизни), а Ñanasuci Bhikkhu о данном (в смысле феноменах).